nemonclature: Daria looking unamused (eh)
[personal profile] nemonclature
My main issue with the way canon and for the most part, fanon deals with Loki's parentage is the same issue I have with Once Upon a Time and Henry's parentage, only in reverse.

In OUAT Henry's REAL mum is Emma and Regina's just an awful pretender. IDK if it gets better in s2? But certainly in s1 that was the main narrative and there wasn't really any space to critique that.

Whereas in Thor Loki's adoptive parents are his REAL parents, and the Jotun aren't really spoken about. No one ever contests the 'abandoned baby' story, Odin claims, no matter how suspect it may be. (It was during a war, okay? What, they gonna carry their babies in on their backs?)

Okay, in Thor there is this general anti Jotun vibe, so I guess no one is interested in saying 'HEY maybe Laufey really wanted Loki and did anyone even bother asking Farbauti about any of this?'

But I think it's a shame that vibe has carried over into fanon, because:

a) A nuanced look at adoption/fostering/kidnapping systems in alien societies would be fucking AWESOME.
b) Loki actually dealing with his internalised fantastic racism would also be fucking awesome, and can only really happen when you humanise the Jotun, by oh IDK GIVING US SOME FUCKING JOTUN CHARACTERS?
c) Loki dealing with his genocidal war crimes on Jotun would be SUCH an amazing complex story I am so down with. (Especially considering during his reparations he could meet Angrbodr and there would be sex.)
d) Because Jotun society is basically a blank slate and I love me some alien society fic. Especially since Laufey is actually Loki's mother.

It also ties in to my other issue with ignoring the Jotun in Loki fic - Dealing with Midgard and Asgard is all well and good, but what he did there is basically small fry. Okay, we have no idea how bad the effect of the Bifrost on Jotun was, but chances are it was more than city wide, I mean the Bifrost was open for a LONG WHILE. He could have downed an entire continent. But the fics just focus on his spree in NY (and occasionally Stuttgart)

It bothers me because it's effectively perpetuating the fantastic racism. And yes, giant blue aliens are maybe hard to sympathise with when compared with actualfax humans, but fantastic racism can be used to focus our attention on real world racism. And rating lives lost here vs lives lost there is something the media does all the time.

Anyway, all that sudden srsbsns political drama aside, mostly I just want Farbauti to BAMF in there in all hir genderqueer fantastic-ness and spirit Loki away to pay his dues and reappear stronger and awesomer than ever. Also BAMF Angrbodr and pregnant Loki. I could actually read preg fic if it was tied up in all that myffic shit.

(I do realise a great deal of this may be my knee jerk anti-Gryffindor, pro-Slytherin narrative bias coming up - My desire to see the above BAMFing and Odin/Frigga taken to task for their kidnapping/'fostering' feels a lot like my desire to see some Slytherin!Harry AUs where those fucking banners do not fucking change at the leaving feast and And Pansy bloody Parkinson's ill thought words don't decide the fate of an entire swathe of society... grr.)

Date: 2013-06-18 06:33 am (UTC)
out_there: B-Day Present '05 (Default)
From: [personal profile] out_there
a) A nuanced look at adoption/fostering/kidnapping systems in alien societies would be fucking AWESOME.

*nods* There is a serious lack of nuance in fantastic adoption stories. to be honest, it drove me up the wall in OUAT and may be the reason I stop bothering to turn the TV on for it.

and this is sort of where I wish I actually kept track of fics I read, becasue there was a story I wanted to rec of an Asgard afterlife where Loki was a side-character but it said some interesting things about such a mythic genderqueer character and the internalised xenophobia within the Asgardians. (Except I can't htink of the title. And I'm not even sure if the story was Clint/Phil or Steve/Tony. *total memory fail*)

Date: 2013-06-18 11:47 pm (UTC)
out_there: B-Day Present '05 (Default)
From: [personal profile] out_there
Okay, my memory fails but Google doesn't. (UI am so impressed by technology at this second.) The fic I was thinking of is Valhalla Blues. It's Phil/Clint and post-Avengers movie, but I love the amount of world-building around the Norse concept of an afterlife, I love the frequent references to Loki as "mother" and the acknowledgement that when you look at the myths, Loki is a complex character (and the tag "Loki is beyond your petty mortal concepts of gender" always makes me giggle) and I like a post-movie fix-it that felt like it really did provide a fix for multiple characters.

It's not about the Jotun, but there is a nice little acknowledgement of Loki... hmmm. I can't put it into words too well right now, but that he's a character from both, that it's not as cut and dry as From Here or From There. There is a word for that, but I'm struggling to remember it at 10am.

Date: 2013-06-18 11:11 am (UTC)
beccatoria: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beccatoria
They do improve that in S2 of OUAT, actually. Unfortunately they don't improve it enough to make up for the fact that in the second half of said season they suffered a major attack of White Dude panic and introduced a bunch because what would this show be without a banal love triangle for the female lead and a new dude to make ~special~. At which point I basically fell off the wagon of watching it too. I do intend to go back to it at some point; the parts I like I really like, but the parts I don't...aah, it's just so frustrating. It's almost such a good and interesting look at fairytales and mixing them up. If they'd just...use their perfect plot-set-ups to be non-normative instead of always diving head first into True Love and Biological Family even when chances to do something different (and not just with Henry - with Pinnochio or Red or the Huntsman) are right there.

But sorry, you were mostly talking about Loki. And you make good points. Making the Jotun blank slate villains effectively removes a lot of Loki's complexity by default because it becomes extremely difficult, if not impossible, to cast him as anything other than rebelling against a biological imperative to be a jerk and that's never a good idea. Making the Jotun complex individuals not only opens up a lot of interesting stories for Loki (as you outline), but also returns Loki's agency as an individual making choices, because there's no longer a monolithic, two-dimensional race of "bad guys" he's "really" one of.

(edited because sometimes if you leave a word out of your sentence you accidentally say the opposite to what you mean... *facepalm*)
Edited Date: 2013-06-18 11:13 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-06-20 06:59 am (UTC)
sylvaine: comicsverse Just a glimpse of Thor's cloak and hammer with the speech bubble saying "I shall go polish mine hammer." ([marvel] Thor/Mjolnir)
From: [personal profile] sylvaine
Oh man now I really want that too. *______* Worldbuilding and alien cultures are basically my favourite thing ever. Add genderqueerness to that and I'm in heaven.

Loki is such an interesting character, and yet, I virtually always avoid fic about him. Writers frequently seem far too interested in woobifying him and in how ~hot he is (I'm reminded of leather pants!Draco) to actually explore all the interesting, alien plots & cultures & all that could be written about him.

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